{"id":4814,"date":"2020-06-11T13:03:12","date_gmt":"2020-06-11T19:03:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/?p=4814"},"modified":"2025-08-13T03:06:44","modified_gmt":"2025-08-13T09:06:44","slug":"portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/11\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light\/","title":{"rendered":"Portrait of Rudy Perez 2: Remain in Light"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>This is a second conversation with dancer-choreographer Rudy Perez, taking place last month on May 30. During our review of <a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/05\/20\/portrait-of-rudy-perez\/\">Part 1<\/a> Rudy raised a few topics that I wanted to pursue.&nbsp;And, of course, there had been the murder of George Floyd on Memorial Day, and the reactions from coast to coast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What follows has been lightly edited for clarity. Many thanks to Susan Perry Miick for her help with photographs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<p>My regret is that virtually no streaming video of Rudy&#8217;s oeuvre is available for me to point to. That makes the trailer for the 2006 documentary, <em>Countdown: Reflections on a Life in Dance<\/em>, a brief, beneficial artifact. Distributor Alexander Street does <a href=\"https:\/\/search.alexanderstreet.com\/preview\/work\/bibliographic_entity%7Cvideo_work%7C1746127\">provide a transcript<\/a> of the film. Depending on the operational status of your local library, you might be able to borrow the documentary <a href=\"http:\/\/www.worldcat.org\/oclc\/775453364\">via WorldCat<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Countdown: Reflections on a Life in Dance (Rudy Perez)\" width=\"525\" height=\"394\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/jJBE-1G-l6s?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span>&nbsp;I wanted to touch on a couple of things we spoke about outside of&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/05\/20\/portrait-of-rudy-perez\/\">Part 1<\/a>. And that was what you studied at the high school of the arts and when that was, how long it was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I went to the original High School of Music &amp; Art, which is now the High School of Performing Arts. But like I mentioned in our last conversation I was very young then. I was high school age and I was not capable of maintaining my responsibility to be in those classes because\u2014I mean, I was lucky to have been selected\u2014but students in that class were going to Juilliard and places like that. They were coming from economical privilege or whatever opportunities to study on the outside so they could maintain their work at the high school. I wasn\u2019t able to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And so how long were you there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> It didn\u2019t last very long. It was very brief. In fact, I was encouraged to stay, but I pleaded with the principal at the time and I said, \u201cI really can\u2019t do this. Although I appreciate it.\u201d And they were really adamant about my staying, but they were completely unaware of where I was coming from in terms of my culture and the fact that we didn\u2019t have any money and things like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And what did you study there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Piano and voice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I just find it interesting that it wasn\u2019t dance. [<em>chuckles<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> No. And yet I was a natural dancer because my dancing comes from my culture. All the Latin dancing and all that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> You also mentioned the work, other than dance, that you did at <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Judson_Memorial_Church#Sponsorship_of_the_arts\">Judson<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Well, I assisted everybody. I came in [originally] because someone invited me to be in one of their pieces. That was <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Elaine_Summers\">Elaine Summers<\/a>. I was not an original member of the group, or a founder; I was just someone that was brought in to be in a piece by someone else who was part of the original group [<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Judson_Dance_Theater\">Judson Dance Theater<\/a>]. And that\u2019s how I got my foot in the door. And I just kind of stayed and tried to be as helpful as possible: stage manage, help with props, and all sorts of things. I got to the place where I did some work with Rauschenberg when he did a piece at the Armory; I stage managed his pieces. You know, it was so vast, it\u2019s unbelievable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Wow. [Rauschenberg\u2019s] part in [the documentary film]&nbsp;<em>Cunningham<\/em> is pretty\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> \u2014just the visuals in that film are stunning. And then they said, \u201cHe\u2019s gonna be outa here,\u201d and he was; his career took off and he went on. So you were involved in plays\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20221202112254\/http:\/\/classic.judson.org\/judsonpoetstheater\">Judson Poets&#8217; Theatre<\/a>, that was the theater group; I was a part of that. And they did Sam Shepard, the playwright; he was there at the time. I got to meet him. And they did his early plays there in the choir loft.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> What a time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yep, what a time.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image wp-image-4855\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"655\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/jdt_cover.jpg?resize=525%2C655&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Judson Dance Theater: The Work Is Never Done cover\" class=\"wp-image-4855\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/jdt_cover.jpg?w=802&amp;ssl=1 802w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/jdt_cover.jpg?resize=241%2C300&amp;ssl=1 241w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/jdt_cover.jpg?resize=768%2C958&amp;ssl=1 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Catalog for the 2018 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.moma.org\/calendar\/exhibitions\/3927\">MoMA exhibition<\/a> of the same name. Among the many innovators discussed are Elaine Summers and Rudy Perez.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Again, last time we spoke, you talked about how you had obtained a grant that took you to places far afield from New York.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I was part of the National Endowment [of the Arts] touring program. And that enabled me to get out of New York. At that time, when I was in New York, I only received one grant, from the New York State Council on the Arts for $2500. And when I left New York the NEA rolled out their red carpet and I\u2019ve gotten at least fifteen grants from them, plus the touring program.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And did the touring take you to Denver?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> It took me all over. [<em>laughs<\/em>] I might not have travelled Europe but I have travelled the United States. That\u2019s how I got to Denver and Boulder. Oh my gosh. And every time I went somewhere I thought, <em>Oh gee wiz, this is where I\u2019d like to move.&nbsp;<\/em>[<em>both laugh<\/em>]&nbsp;But that changed soon enough when I realized, <em>Well, maybe not.<\/em> For whatever reason. But I spent so much time in Denver and Boulder, it\u2019s just unbelievable. I was there in \u201976\u2014in the mid \u201970s just when the Naropa group was starting. I remember it was the year that <em>Jaws<\/em>&nbsp;came out [<em>laughs<\/em>] the movie [1975]. So there\u2019s a lot of stuff there. And I was also there for a semester or quarter at the university.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> In Boulder?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Because I was at Naropa a couple of years [later]. I had an apprenticeship with Allen Ginsberg, one of his many, many, many apprentices.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> What year was that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I think it was \u201978.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Oh, wow. I had already left. I was out here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I\u2019m going to go a little bit further back in time. Because of what\u2019s going on right now with people in the streets, the talking heads inevitably are comparing 2020 with 1968. And I\u2019m wondering if you had any memories. Was there anything that struck you about that year? Martin Luther King was assassinated, Robert Kennedy, the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, the shootout with the Oakland Police and the Black Panthers, and what some people felt was the stealing of the Democratic presidential candidacy [for] Humphrey, which mirrors in some ways the way people are feeling about Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. All you have to do is go to Wikipedia and select <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/1968\">1968<\/a>. I\u2019m just wondering if what was in the air had an effect on what you were doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> In that sense, because of the riots or anything, I was aware of them but I was always out on the road or somewhere in residence, and that kept me pretty occupied. I think the only time, like when [John] Kennedy died, I was living in New York and I was much younger. I was working a 9-to-5 job and I just couldn\u2019t get to work, I was just so moved by the whole thing. And I was also there when Castro came to this country,<span id='easy-footnote-1-4814' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/11\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light\/#easy-footnote-bottom-1-4814' title='Fidel Castro came to New York City in Sep 1960 to attend the United Nations General Assembly. Among the guests at a Fair Play for Cuba Committee reception for Castro in Harlem was Allen Ginsberg, who would have a love-hate relationship with the country, eventually being expelled from the country in 1965. See Barry Miles, &lt;em&gt;Ginsberg: A Biography&lt;\/em&gt;&amp;nbsp;(New York: Simon and Schuster, 1965, 275, 351\u2013352, 367\u2013368).'><sup>1<\/sup><\/a><\/span> living on 32nd Street in a cold-water flat with the john out in the hall and no heat.&nbsp;[<em>both laugh<\/em>]&nbsp;And that apartment was passed down to me by <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Grover_Dale\">Grover Dale<\/a>, dancer, actor. You\u2019ve heard of Grover Dale, right? Did a lot of Broadway also.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I don\u2019t know that name.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a id=\"qW3dGcN6RdZ1rJGS2sJAjQ\" class=\"gie-slideshow\" style=\"color: #a7a7a7; text-decoration: none; font-weight: normal !important; border: none; display: inline-block;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.gettyimages.com\/detail\/1207103154\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Embed from Getty Images<\/a><script>window.gie=window.gie||function(c){(gie.q=gie.q||[]).push(c)};gie(function(){gie.widgets.load({id:'qW3dGcN6RdZ1rJGS2sJAjQ',sig:'AWxCisLd9w3gJs0d1yiiKdsAoM-bYVw5Ub5BfdvGZXY=',w:'594px',h:'558px',items:'1207103154,1207103513,1180055365,1180055366,1207102741',caption: true ,tld:'com',is360: false })});<\/script><script src=\"\/\/embed-cdn.gettyimages.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\" async=\"\"><\/script><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> He\u2019s still around. He came here way before me. In the \u201950s, he split from <a href=\"https:\/\/translate.google.com\/translate?sl=no&amp;tl=en&amp;u=https%3A%2F%2Fno.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGene_Nettles\">Gene Nettles<\/a>, who went off to Europe, and they gave up the apartment and I took it over. Only $43 a month. But with the tub in the kitchen, the john in the hall, no refrigerator.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I was interested in the fact that in your program for the first performance of <em>Remain in Light or Take Back Your Yellow Ribbon<\/em>, you dedicated it \u201cto the Men and Women in the Persian Gulf.\u201d Of course you didn\u2019t say, \u201cService Men and Women\u201d; you said \u201cMen and Women\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> \u2014which I think was pretty universal. So the dedication was different than the impetus for the piece. Before the performance you\u2019re quoted in the <em>L.A. Times<\/em> saying:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">Because of the war and recession, my company\u2019s morale is down. For a long time I didn\u2019t want to dance because I didn\u2019t need to. For me, the creative process\u2014choreography and teaching\u2014is the most exciting part. I don\u2019t have that thing about having to be in front of the audience. But I wanted to do this to raise our spirits and regenerate. I feel like the ship is sinking and I\u2019ve decided to jump into the water and save it. Now that I\u2019m into it, I have a reserve of extra energy and suddenly I feel alive again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> If critics extrapolated from the dedication, that the performance had something literally to do with the war, that was their interpretation and not necessarily your intent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Quoting the dedication for <em>Made in L.A.<\/em>, for which <em>Remain in Light<\/em> was the centerpiece, <em>L.A. Times<\/em> dance critic Lewis Segal wrote that the entire work &#8220;seems to explore the war&#8217;s impact on different sensibilities.&#8221; Thus his review is through that lens, beginning with the score, composed by Rob Berg and myself (&#8220;incorporates what may be distant thunder\u2014or something far more ominous&#8221;). Segal wrote that Rudy&#8217;s solo &#8220;links a meditative, communal, &#8216;exotic&#8217; opening section (the four-member Perez company dressed in saffron robes) with a dancey, convivial, &#8216;domestic&#8217; finale (the cast wearing California shorts and singlets).&#8221; But neither the costumer, Susan Perry Miick, nor Rob and I ever were let in on Rudy&#8217;s grand design &#8220;to explore the war&#8221; in any fashion. Because such a scheme didn\u2019t exist.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Well, I don\u2019t see my work as being literal. I mean I see it as being abstract and I really feel it works when people get different interpretations of it. What year was that, by the way?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> That was 1991.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> That was the year I did <em>Dance-Crazy Kid<\/em> [<em>from New Jersey Meets Hofmannsthal<\/em> (1992)]. I really don\u2019t remember a lot of it. I was just telling someone the other day, I\u2019m fortunate to be going through your doing what you\u2019re doing, but so much of the past is just going, going, going, gone. It\u2019s nice to reflect and try to remember but I can\u2019t actually state where I was mentally at that time because it was <em>that time<\/em>. Like the time I\u2019m going through right now. So I can\u2019t give you an honest opinion about that time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I <em>do<\/em> remember. And this was my ignorance, not knowing about your career, although you did sit us down, Rob Berg, my collaborator on the score [of <em>Remain in Light<\/em>], and showed us some of your [early] work on videotape. You kept talking about how you were going to be performing again. And I hadn\u2019t realized that that was a major step for you, since you hadn&#8217;t performed since 1983.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Right. And so much of it was that, up to that date, we did plenty of company performances. But there was such a demand for me to do solos and I didn\u2019t want to. And so for the longest time I just didn\u2019t, until this particular moment. And all of a sudden the phoenix rose and I started to do this solo. But it was just because of what was happening at that time or how I felt or\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Well,&nbsp;what happened is, the first string of performances [of <em>Remain in Light<\/em>] was at LACE&nbsp;and the sound person got the flu. They called me and asked me to come in and do sound. [<em>laughs<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> See, I don\u2019t even remember that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Well, I distinctly do because I was really mad. I did not want to have to do that, mainly because of my own insecurity. Because, as I remember <em>Loop I<\/em> began with our score, which was bell tones droning [alternated with fragments of Vivaldi&#8217;s two concertos for mandolins, requiring precise, synchronized audio and lighting cues]. The company, I believe, was in saffron robes by\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Susan Perry Miick.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> \u2014and umbrellas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> That was quite a piece.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/9102_Rudy_Perez_PhMartinCox-1024x694-1.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"356\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/9102_Rudy_Perez_PhMartinCox-1024x694-1.jpg?resize=525%2C356&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Still from Loop I (Spiritual Quest)\" class=\"wp-image-4849\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/9102_Rudy_Perez_PhMartinCox-1024x694-1.jpg?w=1024&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/9102_Rudy_Perez_PhMartinCox-1024x694-1.jpg?resize=300%2C203&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/9102_Rudy_Perez_PhMartinCox-1024x694-1.jpg?resize=768%2C521&amp;ssl=1 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Still image from <strong>Loop I (Spiritual Quest)<\/strong> (1991), the first segment of <strong>Made in L.A.<\/strong> Pictured are Anne Goodman, Dura Snodgrass, and Robert Keane. Costumes by Susan Perry Miick. Photo by LACE Archive photographer Martin Cox. (Click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"412\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1.jpg?resize=525%2C412&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Still from Loop I Spiritual Quest\" class=\"wp-image-4837\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C803&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C235&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C602&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C1204&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/loop_1-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C1605&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Still image from <strong>Loop I (Spiritual Quest)<\/strong>. Pictured are Robert Keane, Jeffrey Grimaldo, and Anne Goodman. Costumes by Susan Perry Miick. Photo likely by Nixson Borah, courtesy of Susan Perry Miick. (Click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> It\u2019s just stunning. Your photographer Nixson Borah came to me at some point during the three nights and said, &#8220;I believe that the coming together of your scores and the ensemble\u2019s choreography, dancing,&#8221; and of course your solo, &#8220;is the most impressive that I\u2019ve ever seen<em>.&#8221;<\/em> Meaning that the way it worked together. And in [some] cases I know there was some <em>opposition<\/em>, because Rob told me that he had never experienced asynchronized dancing before. And so there must have been an element of that. That\u2019s why I\u2019m eager see the video.<span id='easy-footnote-2-4814' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/11\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light\/#easy-footnote-bottom-2-4814' title='I have requested access to video of &lt;em&gt;Made in L.A.&lt;\/em&gt; from the Rudy Perez Archive at USC.'><sup>2<\/sup><\/a><\/span> But then Rob saw <em>Cunningham<\/em> recently and he told me, \u201cOh, I get it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> [<em>laughs<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> But he hadn\u2019t gotten it at the time. [<em>chuckles<\/em>] I had, because I had worked with you in the workshops.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Right. So what was the connection with Cunningham, that he all of a sudden got it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I think the part where [Merce] talks about the counting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Oh, right, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And you had mentioned the counting in your newsletter, and so I put that <a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/05\/20\/portrait-of-rudy-perez\/#counting\">into Part 1<\/a> of the interview.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Loop I - Spiritual Quest\" width=\"525\" height=\"394\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/gh_tnbgHbZ0?list=OLAK5uy_koGTnENUDNomNz7HxjstrA52sm86krgTk\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> So much of the work chronology is <a href=\"http:\/\/www.rudyperezdance.org\/chronology-of-works.html\">on the website<\/a>. Have you checked the website?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I have, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> There\u2019s so much on there. At least it\u2019s there, but it\u2019s not as together as I think on a certain level is what you\u2019re doing. Not that that\u2019s been my frustration; my frustration has mainly been with the archives at USC. They don\u2019t have the archives in any sense of order that anyone could get anything out of it. I hope you\u2019ll get a copy of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> The finding aid is absolutely thorough. And there are two ways it can be accessed. One is an interactive (and I would say less useful) <a href=\"https:\/\/archives.usc.edu\/repositories\/8\/resources\/2267\">finding aid<\/a>, meaning you have to kinda know what you want to be able to get what you want. But there\u2019s another method, which is OAC, Online Archive of California, which I use in my own work and which displays the <a href=\"https:\/\/oac.cdlib.org\/findaid\/ark:\/13030\/kt1b69r96f\/\">finding aid<\/a> as one long text document. It can be easily browsed and searched; it\u2019s much easier to use. And it\u2019s all catalogued. There\u2019s nothing hidden.<span id='easy-footnote-3-4814' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/11\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light\/#easy-footnote-bottom-3-4814' title='In the course of preparing this post I found out from Susan Perry Miick that she helped Rudy organize his papers for the USC accession in 2002. I also learned that my collaborator Rob Berg did &lt;a href=&quot;https:\/\/oac.cdlib.org\/findaid\/ark:\/13030\/c83t9pk1\/&quot;&gt;the same&lt;\/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;in 2015 for Lewis MacAdams, the recently departed poet known for championing the Los Angeles River amongst other things. And I did &lt;a href=&quot;https:\/\/archives.denverlibrary.org\/repositories\/3\/resources\/8823&quot;&gt;the same&lt;\/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;in 2018 for the late David Anderson, an ex-prisoner who helped shut down Colorado&amp;#8217;s &amp;#8220;Old Max&amp;#8221; prison in 1979.'><sup>3<\/sup><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I wonder if they can find the time that I was a guest at Rona Barrett\u2019s Show [July 24, 1981, in the <a href=\"https:\/\/oac.cdlib.org\/findaid\/ark:\/13030\/kt1b69r96f\/dsc\/?query=rona;dsc.position=1#hitNum1\">finding aid<\/a>].<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I remember watching that live.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> And I did it on top of her desk:&nbsp;<em>Equinox-Run<\/em>. That was quite something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I remember you were just tickled to death to be there. She asked you how you were or something like that and you said, \u201cWell, I\u2019m just pleased to be here.\u201d [<em>laughs<\/em>] It was so great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> That was a time. It\u2019s always nice when people, especially people outside of your profession, acknowledge you and they want to share your work with the public. Especially Rona Barrett and then of course there was <em>The Today Show<\/em> with Barbara Walters in New York [not in the finding aid].<span id='easy-footnote-4-4814' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/11\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-2-remain-in-light\/#easy-footnote-bottom-4-4814' title='Barbara Walters left &lt;em&gt;The Today Show&lt;\/em&gt;&amp;nbsp;on 04 Jun 1976, just before Rudy&amp;#8217;s &lt;em&gt;District 1&lt;\/em&gt; reprised on television as part of the &lt;em&gt;Dance for Camera&lt;\/em&gt; series the week of 13 Jun 1976.'><sup>4<\/sup><\/a><\/span> There was always that, and that was always very exciting. And people always bent backwards. <em>The Today Show<\/em>\u2014I wish we could find a copy of that\u2014they really bent backwards. It was unbelievable. And a lot has to do with a sense of respect I have for myself and my work. And people not understanding the nature of my work or where I\u2019m coming from [<em>chuckles<\/em>] or the work. So that\u2019s always been frustrating.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"394\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293.jpg?resize=525%2C394&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Dances Without Borders program\" class=\"wp-image-4853\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C225&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C576&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C1152&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2293-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C1536&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I wanted to talk with you about the second performance of <em>Remain in Light<\/em> at the Japan America Theatre. I\u2019m pretty sure you saw <a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2019\/04\/01\/everybody-dance-now-2-adansual\/#ohno\">Kazuo Ohno<\/a> when he performed at the Japan America Theatre.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Who\u2019s he?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> The butoh master who did his homage to La Argentina, the Spanish dancer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I recall, maybe I did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> It just seemed to me that whatever alterations you had made to that solo became a homage to him. I\u2019m just wondering if there was any connection there between reinterpreting the solo and Kazuo Ohno\u2019s performance.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image wp-image-4846 size-large\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"415\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light.jpg?resize=525%2C415&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Still from Remain in Light\" class=\"wp-image-4846\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C809&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C237&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C607&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C1214&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/remain_in_light-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C1618&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Still image from <strong>Remain in Light or Take Back Your Yellow Ribbon<\/strong> (1991), the middle segment of <strong>Made in L.A.<\/strong>&nbsp;Costumes by Susan Perry Miick. Photo by Nixson Borah, courtesy of Susan Perry Miick.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Certainly at any time when I see someone whose work is of that nature and really stirs me and makes me think about the possibility of doing something differently\u2014it\u2019s not so much that I, like so many people do today, they don\u2019t have the discipline or the way to find their own way of doing it. My intent was not to copy him, but try to find a way to find the inspiration from the work so that I could apply it to my own work. Because the work has a lot of integrity. During the 1984 Olympic Arts Festival I did a homage to the Sankai Juku company, a piece called <em>Where Angels Coast<\/em>&nbsp;because [Sankai Juku] did this piece at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">[<em>the following video is grayed out until fully loaded<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/fresques.ina.fr\/en-scenes\/export\/player\/Scenes00760\/wide?isAmalia=1\" width=\"100%\" height=\"100%\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Oh, that\u2019s right. I was there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Not at that performance, but when they were up in Seattle, one of the dancers fell, and I was so moved by that performance and all of that, that I decided to create this piece <em>Where Angels Coast<\/em>. And I did that in New York. Oh, wow. [<em>laughs<\/em>] Oh\u2026 So much, so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> So many memories. And so many memories that include you and that whole time. I feel like in some ways I don\u2019t know anything about you [<em>chuckles<\/em>] and then it turns out I know quite a bit because I did study with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I think we all had our own issues and things were much more accessible. We were able to do what we did. We did the best we could. It\u2019s not so much that we took things for granted, but this was the way it was. I mean, it was possible to do whatever you could as long as you had the opportunity to do it, but you had to work at being good at what you did. And of course you were influenced and inspired by other great artists. I don\u2019t know how Robert Wilson came up artistically, because in many ways he\u2019s been a big influence also. But we\u2019re contemporaries; he\u2019s only ten years younger than I am. His work was monumental. Unbelievable. How do other artists get to a place where they find other people\u2019s wonderful works so inspiring that they come up doing magnificent work themselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Well, I recently listened to Bachelors Anonymous, the group that I had with Rob Berg.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Oh, I remember that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And then you asked us to do the score for [<em>Made in L.A.<\/em>]. And so I haven\u2019t listened to our music in probably fifteen years. A historian had digitized pretty much all of our work and when I was looking for stuff on you I came across it and listened to it last week. And I hear the influences. [<em>chuckles<\/em>] Other people may not, but I know what I lifted from others\u2014mainly lyricists. Musically I hear some similarities, but I was the lyricist for the most part for Bacheolors Anonymous and so I know [<em>chuckles<\/em>] what I lifted. And, y\u2019know, you just kinda take it in a different direction and it becomes your own. It\u2019s almost like doing a cover of a standard. Are you going to be faithful? Or are you going to make it your own?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> And because of the opportunities I\u2019ve had I could never just think of doing a piece for a small venue. But my head had to be at a place where I was doing a piece for a large venue. [<em>laughs<\/em>] So my thinking and my work at Judson, what I was going to do really had to be at a place where it had its own sense of where Rudy Perez was, coming from where he is at the time. Yes, there might have been influences, but I can\u2019t say people have often said <em>that<\/em> work\u2019s been influenced by other people, other than me saying it. They might compare the work professionally, on the craft, or the work to [that of] other artists, but I don\u2019t think people can say that I ripped people off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>[<em>both laugh<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I could say they might have ripped me off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>[<em>both laugh<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> But it\u2019s not so much the people who are professional; it\u2019s just a lot of younger people who think that they\u2019re very original.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> When I first [talked] with you after we reconnected, you remembered the Mattachine Society in New York, I think. Did you have any contact with those people?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> No. I think I had more contact with them when I came out here because Joseph\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> \u2014<a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2019\/11\/14\/falling-awake-joseph-shuldiner-1957-2019\/\">Shuldiner<\/a>\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> \u2014and his buddies, they got involved with me because of my work and they invited me to some of the meetings. And I met them\u2014the head of the Mattachine\u2014and they knew who I was, and that\u2019s as far as it went.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Harry Hay, who\u2019s considered the father of the modern gay civil rights movement was a friend of Sara Shuldiner and maybe even a friend of her sister\u2014[<em>chuckles<\/em>] whose name is escaping me! Famous choreographer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Oh, Bella Lewitsky. Wasn\u2019t Joseph related to her as well?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> She\u2019s Sara\u2019s sister, so Bella was Joseph\u2019s aunt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> [<em>chuckles<\/em>] It all comes back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Because you received the Lester Horton award for <em>Remain in Light<\/em> at LACE. And I told you, which you hadn&#8217;t known, that Harry Hay met Rudy Gernreich and then they formed the Mattachine, but they met at Lester Horton\u2019s studio because Harry\u2019s daughter was studying with Lester, and Rudy Gernreich was a dancer and also doing costuming for Lester.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"525\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294.jpg?resize=525%2C525&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Dances Without Borders program\" class=\"wp-image-4852\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C300&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=150%2C150&amp;ssl=1 150w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C768&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C1536&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C2048&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/IMG_2294-scaled.jpg?resize=100%2C100&amp;ssl=1 100w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I\u2019m only sorry that I was never at a place\u2014I know that when I was in New York he did visit sometime in the \u201950s\u2014but I never had the opportunity to really meet him. I often questioned other people who know him, &#8220;Would we have gotten along?&#8221; [<em>laughs<\/em>] I feel kind of left out, or missed the boat there, not having the opportunity to have been associated with him in some way. Because there are so many people that I have been associated with. Not the West Coast, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And what was the response? Would you have gotten along with him?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yes. They would say, &#8220;Yes.&#8221; [<em>laughs<\/em>] They all said yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Well, Andrea and I had a favorite watering hole on Colfax in Denver before all this happened. And we went in one night and the place had been turned into a flamenco paradise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> It was amazing. We thought we&#8217;d be turned away. Somebody saw Andrea\u2014she\u2019s kind of frail now\u2014and took her under her wing, brought her over to their table (I was parking the car). I had no idea this was happening: the local flamenco <em>maestra<\/em> was performing. We got to talking afterwards. The woman who rescued Andrea studied I think with this same flamenco dancer, but turns out she has been trained in the Horton Technique, went to Horton confabs. So it exists; it goes on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Right, right. I find the technique\u2014in that I, and some of the other people who were teachers or people who worked with [Horton], like <a href=\"https:\/\/ailey.org\/people\/james-truitte\">James Truitte<\/a>\u2014very strenuous, very fatiguing. And my conclusion when I was examining <em>Why was it?<\/em>, I felt it had a lot to do with the fact that the technique was devised with this environment, a West Coast environment, because it\u2019s so easy not to do anything here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> [<em>chuckles<\/em>] So you have to kind of bring people in line?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Well, the technique is very fatiguing. They just keep repeating things until you wear yourself out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> And you would contrast what you do\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> That was just a curiosity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> But would you like to contrast that with\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> No. That was just at the time. Because I was very aware that the Lester Horton Technique was a big technique everywhere. More so out here than I think in New York. But I was only disappointed that I didn\u2019t meet the man; I wanted to. I mean, the same thing with <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Jack_Cole_(choreographer)\">Jack Cole<\/a>; I never did meet him. I admire him for what he\u2019s done, but I also know that he was very demanding. It\u2019s just a whole other place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> I don\u2019t have any more questions, but is there anything that you want to leave us with?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Well, we\u2019ve covered a lot. And like I mentioned earlier, the day has been very difficult for me, dealing with the protests and finally realizing that it\u2019s not over and that it\u2019s still something I\u2019m trying not to allow to get to me. Not that I don\u2019t care, but as we well know it\u2019s not over yet. We don\u2019t know how far it\u2019s going to go and what\u2019s going to happen next. And still worrying about the virus and trying to keep myself at a place where I don\u2019t come down with something. Myself at 90 and a half [<em>laughs<\/em>] worrying about my own health. And how much capability am I going to have to even go to the john on my own and take care of myself. My vision is pretty bad but I stay in my apartment and I\u2019m quite familiar with it. It\u2019s small and the walls are close and so I can hold on to them if I fall\u2014I have fallen. So that\u2019s a big fear. That\u2019s one of the things that does happen to people that are older, is falling; you go off balance. How I manage\u2026. But I do exercises to kinda keep my leg strength. I&#8217;m very fortunate to have a support group around me, former Ensemble members and others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Good. You talked about circadian rhythm. You\u2019re partially sighted, correct?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Yeah. Visually impaired.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> So if you\u2019re able to recognize day from night\u2014you told me that you keep a circadian rhythm. You don\u2019t let yourself go off of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> I mean, I don\u2019t have the choice. I can\u2019t go out and run around. I think maybe when I had the opportunity and when I was driving, maybe I was not so much on that [rhythm]. But being sheltered down here, not so much because of just the virus but because of being an older person, I do try to get to bed at an early hour and I try to get up at a reasonable hour so I don\u2019t spend any more time in bed than I have to. And find some way to keep myself active, my mind and my body.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow aligncenter\" data-effect=\"slide\"><div class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_container swiper\"><ul class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_swiper-wrapper swiper-wrapper\"><li class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide\"><figure><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"687\" alt=\"Dance Ink cover\" class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-4839\" data-id=\"4839\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1.jpg?resize=525%2C687&#038;ssl=1\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?resize=783%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 783w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?resize=229%2C300&amp;ssl=1 229w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C1005&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?resize=1174%2C1536&amp;ssl=1 1174w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?resize=1566%2C2048&amp;ssl=1 1566w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?w=1957&amp;ssl=1 1957w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink1-scaled.jpg?w=1050&amp;ssl=1 1050w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/figure><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide\"><figure><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"697\" alt=\"Circadian Circle photo\" class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-4840\" data-id=\"4840\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2.jpg?resize=525%2C697&#038;ssl=1\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?resize=771%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 771w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?resize=226%2C300&amp;ssl=1 226w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C1020&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?resize=1157%2C1536&amp;ssl=1 1157w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?resize=1542%2C2048&amp;ssl=1 1542w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?w=1928&amp;ssl=1 1928w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink2-scaled.jpg?w=1050&amp;ssl=1 1050w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/figure><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_slide swiper-slide\"><figure><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"525\" height=\"340\" alt=\"Circadian Circle photos\" class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_image wp-image-4841\" data-id=\"4841\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3.jpg?resize=525%2C340&#038;ssl=1\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C664&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C194&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C498&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C995&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C1327&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/figure><\/li><\/ul><a class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-prev swiper-button-prev swiper-button-white\" role=\"button\"><\/a><a class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-next swiper-button-next swiper-button-white\" role=\"button\"><\/a><a aria-label=\"Pause Slideshow\" class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_button-pause\" role=\"button\"><\/a><div class=\"wp-block-jetpack-slideshow_pagination swiper-pagination swiper-pagination-white\"><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Thanks for this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> Again, it\u2019s just the tip of the iceberg, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> That\u2019s all we can do. But then, who knows?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Rudy:<\/span> It\u2019s not that I\u2019m putting you down for it or reprimanding you for it; it\u2019s just that there\u2019s so much. I mean, my time in Boulder alone [<em>chuckles<\/em>] is unbelievable. Or any place that I spent any length of time in the United States.&nbsp;<del><\/del>As long as I can hold up and see each day through the light, feel good about myself. That\u2019s the most important thing. And my mind is clear, you know, I\u2019m so fortunate that my mind is clear right now. I realize I\u2019m beginning to forget things. I might be going into the kitchen\u2014my apartment\u2019s very small\u2014and midway I forget why I\u2019m going into the kitchen. And I have to stop and, <em>Oh yeah<\/em>, [<em>laughs<\/em>] recall. But usually someone my age is in assisted living or in a nursing home. Because I\u2019ve seen so many people in this building: they\u2019re there now or they\u2019re dead.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">David:<\/span> Stay well, stay safe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Just as our conversation brought back memories for Rudy, my own were kindled. Last week I told my collaborator Rob Berg that I&#8217;d been amazed at how he crafted the music for <em>Made in L.A.<\/em>&#8216;s&nbsp;<em>Loop II<\/em>: &#8220;You were like a lithographer, each musical line a pass of the press, resulting in a whole.&#8221; Rob recalled that one of Rudy&#8217;s dancers, Robert Keane, who also was a musician, became Bachelors Anonymous&#8217;s vocal coach. The choice of monks&#8217; robes for <em>Loop I<\/em> is of interest to us because before I met him Rob was on the path to becoming a monastic in the Ramakrishna Order of the Vedanta Society of Southern California. When Rob and I dissolved Bachelors Anonymous it was because I wanted to devote myself to my own &#8220;spiritual quest,&#8221; the subtitle of <em>Loop I<\/em>. Digitizing the score for <em>Made in L.A.<\/em> has spurred us to begin to fulfill a languishing <em>musical<\/em> quest: to post all of the our collaborations for Bachelors Anonymous and beyond. And beyond, Rob has gone, working in film; his filmography is available at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.imdb.com\/name\/nm0073885\/\">IMDB.com<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-family: 'arial black', sans-serif;\">Dusting off manila folders in the process of preparing Rudy&#8217;s interviews I came across our first performance, which Rudy and I did with my loftmates Joseph Shuldiner and David Moreno. It was forty years ago this summer. I have the tapes, the notes, the publicity and program, and a <em>Drama-Logue<\/em> review. That will be the next installment.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><a href=\"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/2020\/08\/23\/portrait-of-rudy-perez-3-anatomy-of-a-performance\/\">Part 3: Anatomy of a Performance<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Header image:<br><\/em>Circadian Circle<em>,<br>Rudy Perez Dance Ensemble,<br>photographed by Mark Hanauer,<br>courtesy Susan Perry Miick<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h5 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Notes<\/h5>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A second conversation with dancer-choreographer Rudy Perez.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":4841,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[43,56,158,214,683,159,34,33,103,165,104],"tags":[845,861,858,863,346,848,864,849,850,139,859,821,820,841,347,855,862,852,851,847,135,768,844,843,854,388,846,840,856,800,226,842,860,853,857],"class_list":["post-4814","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-art","category-cinema","category-criticism","category-dance","category-education","category-interview","category-lgbt-history","category-music","category-racism","category-theater","category-white-privilege","tag-allen-ginsberg","tag-bachelors-anonymous","tag-barbara-walters","tag-bella-lewitsky","tag-butoh","tag-fidel-castro","tag-gene-nettles","tag-grover-dale","tag-gulf-war","tag-harry-hay","tag-japan-america-theatre","tag-judson-dance-theater","tag-judson-memorial-church","tag-judson-poets-theatre","tag-kazuo-ohno","tag-lace","tag-lester-horton","tag-lewis-segal","tag-made-in-l-a","tag-martin-luther-king","tag-mattachine","tag-merce-cunningham","tag-naropa","tag-nea","tag-nixson-borah","tag-rob-berg","tag-robert-kennedy","tag-robert-rauschenberg","tag-rona-barrett","tag-rudi-gernreich","tag-rudy-perez","tag-sam-shepard","tag-sankai-juku","tag-susan-perry-miick","tag-today-show"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/dance_ink3-scaled.jpg?fit=2560%2C1659&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paF2cn-1fE","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4814","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4814"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4814\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":10760,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4814\/revisions\/10760"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4841"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4814"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4814"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/qualityofmercy.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4814"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}